[Board]: reconsideration of the chatter 2.0

[rimwulf]

SOC

ESP32

Lora IC

DL-CC68-S-868

Product Link

https://www.samsclub.com/p/circuitmess-chatter-stem-project-build-and-code-walkie-talkies/PL980418145

Description

Requesting reconsideration of Chatter 2.0 support as product is still being produced.

Confirmed product is in-fact open source with hardware, schematics, and code. I included photos of mine board for reference and in contact with CircuitMess to see if original PCB files can be obtained.

Latest interest I've found was less than 30 days ago so produce cannot be EOL.

Refrence:
#2707 (comment)

Original code
https://github.com/CircuitMess/Chatter2-Firmware

Fork interest
https://github.com/bestander/Chatter2-Firmware-for-Chatter1

Hardware
LoRa module DL-CC68-S-868

ESP-WROOM-32

Hardware schematics:

Reference photos.

If permitted this will be updated with know info I just ask for consideration and not closing this issue

[code8buster]

It looks like you have everything you need to port meshtastic to it and make a pull request. PRs are generally accepted.

The link you provided states that they're no longer available, as does CircuitMess' own website. Their only mention of what might be available is a projection; to be shipped with their subscription boxes in 2025.

I don't think any devs are volunteering to secondhand-purchase and support what likely is a deprecated device. Unqualified statements like "Latest interest I've found was less than 30 days ago so produce cannot be EOL." do not function as proof that a device is not EOL.
They sold just over 17k units to Sams Club a year ago, and there's no indication that they will sell more:
https://hr.linkedin.com/posts/dorotearudec_so-stoked-about-our-biggest-collaboration-activity-6996443037845344256-aqs0

Edit: whoops, didn't mean to close the issue

[sheehanisageek]

I have over 20 of these chatter 2 units and would love to see a meshtastic port for them.

[rimwulf]

Yeah.

…

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023, 16:30 sheehanisageek ***@***.***> wrote: I have over 20 of these chatter 2 units and would love to see a meshtastic port for them. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2896 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVMYP574QGPX73PMZ4MOS33YCLLRNAVCNFSM6AAAAAA6GZ3ZP2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTOOBZHAZTANBRHE> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[code8buster]

Yeah.
…
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023, 16:30 sheehanisageek @.> wrote: I have over 20 of these chatter 2 units and would love to see a meshtastic port for them. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2896 (comment)>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVMYP574QGPX73PMZ4MOS33YCLLRNAVCNFSM6AAAAAA6GZ3ZP2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTOOBZHAZTANBRHE . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.>

Do either of you have any interest in creating the variant.h files and testing? You could use the DIY variant as a jumping off point.

[rimwulf]

I do! But I'm not sure yet I'm trying to learn to code. I know someone who might as well But I don't want to over promise or overstate my abilities.

…

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023, 23:50 code8buster ***@***.***> wrote: Yeah. … <#m_-3051923212411759796_> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023, 16:30 sheehanisageek *@*.*> wrote: I have over 20 of these chatter 2 units and would love to see a meshtastic port for them. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2896 (comment) <#2896 (comment)>>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVMYP574QGPX73PMZ4MOS33YCLLRNAVCNFSM6AAAAAA6GZ3ZP2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTOOBZHAZTANBRHE <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVMYP574QGPX73PMZ4MOS33YCLLRNAVCNFSM6AAAAAA6GZ3ZP2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTOOBZHAZTANBRHE> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.*> Do either of you have any interest in creating the variant.h files and testing? You could use the DIY variant as a jumping off point. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#2896 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVMYP53KEX2NZOMGDG6BD4DYCXQTBAVCNFSM6AAAAAA6GZ3ZP2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTOOJTGM3DGMBZG4> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[code8buster]

I found that they actually still sell some variant of this device on etsy. Any idea if this is the same hardware, or old stock of an earlier revision?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1357363727/circuitmess-chatter-diy-lora

[fang64]

I just acquired one of these, I'll look at porting it, these are pretty interesting. @rimwulf @code8buster

[fang64]

So I'm running into an issue, it seems I can't find a RESET pin attached for LLCC68, there is a Enable PIN that comes from the USB port but that doesn't appear to be attached to the ESP. Is that absolutely required for the LLCC68?

[caveman99]

The reset pin is connected to 3v3 that's perfectly ok. Have a look at the picomputer S3 definition, it's wired up in a similar way.

#define LORA_RESET RADIOLIB_NC

[rimwulf]

I found that they actually still sell some variant of this device on etsy. Any idea if this is the same hardware, or old stock of an earlier revision? https://www.etsy.com/listing/1357363727/circuitmess-chatter-diy-lora

Oh sorry haven't been getting updates.
No that's the original Chatter awa Chatter 1.0 though it has much of the same hardware but that is in fact overpriced legacy. The chatter 2.0 has a few changes and it costs less than $30 US from eBay. Bought mine from Walmart but the seller decided to raise the price after selling 10 of these kits.

Someone did make code that allowed the original to talk to the 2.0 I didn't find it relevant but I can share it if it helps.

Spoke to the company they hinted that they are planning on making another run so we can't have the PCB files.

[garthvh]

Seems unlikely that the Walmart version is more capable, what are the hardware differences?

[fang64]

Seems unlikely that the Walmart version is more capable, what are the hardware differences?

I have no idea honestly, I've seen them on ebay for as little as $15 btw

[GPSFan]

I'll add my 2cents in here, after seeing fang64's posts on Discord, I ordered one from e-bay. Got it, and was able to fiddle enough with variant.h and a few other files to get it compiled and loaded onto the hardware. It worked to the extent that I could send messages on Medium-Slow.
The display looked nice, almost as nice as my t-deck. So I got that running. I wanted to add GPS (of course) so it was fairly easy to re-purpose the small 4 pin connector on the side.
The only remaining issue I had was the crappy LLCC68. Browsing around the Internet, I found the Heltec RA-62
https://heltec.org/project/ht-ra62/
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805259034353.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.17c950fekrb5ss&algo_pvid=af290929-42b6-4ffa-9c56-e01322af7474&algo_exp_id=af290929-42b6-4ffa-9c56-e01322af7474-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%214.80%213.22%21%21%214.80%21%21%40210318bb17021821910745339e0e5e%2112000033108798513%21sea%21US%21132573136%21&curPageLogUid=RgrSoazZeWtr

The RA-62 is an almost pin compatible replacement for the LLCC68, but uses an SX1262.
I ordered a couple and swapped them out on my Chatter2s, I had to cut and jumper the Busy signal as that was the only pin not compatible. If you are replacing the Lora module, a single cut & jumper should be a non-issue.
Voila a Chatter2 that is fully Meshtastic compatible.
I was also able to get one button (Wake, lower right corner) to serve as ther user button. It wakes the device up out of deep sleep just fine (with my software mods).
I could do a pull request if there is any interest.

[GPSFan]

More Pix ;>)

[fang64]

@GPSFan I haven't had time to get the dial pad keyboard working, I mean the radio on it doesn't support SF12 but it's still useful I think for those wanting to use it as is. That's pretty awesome though.

[USBEprom]

@tomhanax

Hi and thank you very much for your kind reply!
Then something is weird here, because with the current firmware-chatter2-2.6.7.2d6181f the fonts surely are not small anymore, something similar to these

#2896 (comment)

and just over twice these

#2896 (comment)

that I derived by sending me the same exact message

1m ago from Sylv
It's working!

and evaluating its proportions in comparison with the full area of ​​the display.
Ok for the logo screen while booting, but for main screen, recipient list and texting, in my personal opinion the used fonts are exaggerated in size, too big.
For what is now, the representation of the compass on the screen collide with text.
The number of character remaining for texting now is missing, I do not know if because it is out of the visible portion of the screen or because it was cut off.
I would like to try to build a custom firmware by imposing the use of small font and check the result.
Thanks.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[tomhanax]

I do not get it. It is true that I made #6054 but AFAIK it was not merged yet, so it should not affect current state of things. TBH this was my first attempt to make PR and I still do not fully understand the workflow, so maybe I am completely wrong here :D Maybe somebody else knows better.

[eureekasigns]

Haven't tried later than 2.6.4 here either but do recall seeing something about fonts based on screen size somewhere else. Can't seem to find it at the moment.

While I do prefer the larger font, it was odd to have it cut off larger messages and the other UI elements like the compass could also have issues.

Wonder if some other code changed which would affect these.

[USBEprom]

@eureekasigns

I fully agree.
Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[dogboyaa1]

I do not get it. It is true that I made #6054 but AFAIK it was not merged yet, so it should not affect current state of things. TBH this was my first attempt to make PR and I still do not fully understand the workflow, so maybe I am completely wrong here :D Maybe somebody else knows better.

Hi tom I haven’t played with it for a bit but if you go to the downloads on the mesh site and download the debug-elf’s-ESP32-2.6.4 zip file it should have the full compiled bin unless you prefer to compile yourself.

I stopped compiling once they started to include the built ones. I think that one will have the smaller font.

I will try it when I am done with my chores

[USBEprom]

@tomhanax

Hi.
Ok, I agree.
Then we wait for someone more experienced that can give the right answer.
Thanks.

@dogboyaa1

Hi and thank you very much for your kind reply!
I will try it.
Thanks.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[USBEprom]

Hi guys.
Ok, firmware-chatter2-2.6.4.b89355f.bin has small font (thanks @dogboyaa1 !).
Now it is much better, recipient list and texting are more readable, easy to write and better understandable.
The main screen has also improved by using small font, so that generally the representation of the compass on the screen does not collide with text.
Wouldn't it be possible to revert new firmware to the small font?
Thanks.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[rimwulf]

Do you have a "dumbass" guide on how to flash the firmware? I tried doing the instructions but it has no troubleshooting.

[eureekasigns]

@rimwulf take a close look at the pictures here
#6896 (comment)

You need a way to temporarily short a specific pin on the CPU to ground right when you're trying to flash via command line or a web flasher that can take the .bin file.
It can be done with a piece of wire touching a ground point on the board but it's clumsy. It's better to wire to a separate button or use one as shown in that post. Be sure it's on the left side contact point on that button.

Basically you start the flash process via command line or web flasher. Right when that starts, turn the chatter on while holding a button that shorts to ground. It starts flashing. Let go of button. Wait. Done.

[rimwulf]

@rimwulf take a close look at the pictures here #6896 (comment)

You need a way to temporarily short a specific pin on the CPU to ground right when you're trying to flash via command line or a web flasher that can take the .bin file. It can be done with a piece of wire touching a ground point on the board but it's clumsy. It's better to wire to a separate button or use one as shown in that post. Be sure it's on the left side contact point on that button.

Basically you start the flash process via command line or web flasher. Right when that starts, turn the chatter on while holding a button that shorts to ground. It starts flashing. Let go of button. Wait. Done.

Yeah I see that but like couple of others have mentioned on here that flashes pretty easily without all these steps with the factory firmware why all the gymnastics with meshtastic? Or am I misinterpreting?
My soldering skills kind of suck but you know, kind of want to avoid doing so If I can help it.

[eureekasigns]

Not sure why it's different. Or why some have luck without the short to ground trick.

Can just hold a thin piece of wire briefly if you don't want to solder. One end on the pin, one end on a ground point like near a screw hole.
Possibly a paperclip though the pin lead on the chip is rather tiny.

https://esp.huhn.me/ was linked earlier which may work for you.

[USBEprom]

How do you suggest I use the online flasher? I've uploaded .bin files before with other devices. Which device profile did you use?

@rimwulf

Hi,
for what I know, you do not need to impose anything device profile if you use this online flasher:

https://esp.huhn.me/

It is not the official Meshtastic flasher, but it works great for me.
I use it for Heltec V3 and CHATTER from CircuitMess.
Simply links the firmware you want to use and set the starting address to 0 Hex.
No need to specify any device profile.
Of course the online flasher I wrote does not work with all browsers, it is need to use one that has core Chromium, something like Chrome, Edge and so on.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

@dogboyaa1 thinking about this, maybe it has something to do with OS and/or build tools. Not sure stock windows can do it without the pin being activated.

In any case it's possible without soldering, it's just a little awkward to start the process then hold a wire in place while turning it on.

[dogboyaa1]

@dogboyaa1 thinking about this, maybe it has something to do with OS and/or build tools. Not sure stock windows can do it without the pin being activated.

In any case it's possible without soldering, it's just a little awkward to start the process then hold a wire in place while turning it on.

Its been a bit but you are correct. The way i did it on a fresh one. Is using the batch file that comes from the download that is part of the zip. it required the esptools to be installed via python i beleive its been a while. the command using powertools on windows is: .\device-install.bat -f .\firmware-chatter2-2.6.9.f223b8a.bin

And that worked for me without having to do anything on the device.

[USBEprom]

Hi guys.
About the font question I wrote, I am not a firmware engineer, but I took a look at the source and it seems to me that responsible for the behavior of the current Meshtastic firmware on CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 is ScreenFonts.h from line 67 to 77:

67 #if (defined(USE_EINK) || defined(ILI9341_DRIVER) || defined(ILI9342_DRIVER) || defined(ST7701_CS) || defined(ST7735_CS) ||
68 defined(ST7789_CS) || defined(USE_ST7789) || defined(HX8357_CS) || defined(ILI9488_CS)) &&
69 !defined(DISPLAY_FORCE_SMALL_FONTS)
70 // The screen is bigger so use bigger fonts
71 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
72 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28
73 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28
74 #else
75 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_SMALL_LOCAL // Height: 13
76 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
77 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28

So I tried to modify the code from the original

67 #if (defined(USE_EINK) || defined(ILI9341_DRIVER) || defined(ILI9342_DRIVER) || defined(ST7701_CS) || defined(ST7735_CS) ||
68 defined(ST7789_CS) || defined(USE_ST7789) || defined(HX8357_CS) || defined(ILI9488_CS)) && \

to this

67 #if (defined(USE_EINK) || defined(ILI9341_DRIVER) || defined(ILI9342_DRIVER) || defined(ST7701_CS) ||
68 defined(ST7789_CS) || defined(USE_ST7789) || defined(HX8357_CS) || defined(ILI9488_CS)) && \

by removing defined(ST7735_CS), because CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 use the same display ST7735S with 160x128 resolution [128x160 rotated] (https://community.circuitmess.com/t/chatter-screen-pins-for-tft-espi-library/5349/3) and so I built my custom firmware without changing anything else by executing the command

pio run -e chatter2

In this way I got a Meshtastic v2.6.10 firmware for CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 that uses small fonts as I wanted.

Since as I wrote, I am not a firmware engineer, I also tried to maintain defined(ST7735_CS) in the code and change the original lines

71 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
72 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28
73 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28
74 #else
75 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_SMALL_LOCAL // Height: 13
76 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
77 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28

in these others

71 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_SMALL_LOCAL // Height: 13
72 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
73 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28
74 #else
75 #define FONT_SMALL FONT_SMALL_LOCAL // Height: 13
76 #define FONT_MEDIUM FONT_MEDIUM_LOCAL // Height: 19
77 #define FONT_LARGE FONT_LARGE_LOCAL // Height: 28

and again by building with the command

pio run -e chatter2

I got the exact same binary file as before.

Among the two ways of modifying ScreenFonts.h that I used I guess that the first one is the preferable one, but in any case I do not know if it is correct to proceed in that way or if in reality it is expected to operate differently, what I see is that I have built an updated Meshtastic v2.6.10 firmware for CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 that uses small fonts as I wanted.
Thanks.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

That one does look fun. There was some other board that was being discussed about going into an HT chassis of some kind. Not clear if it was actually going to be produced.

[rimwulf]

Yeah I thought I'd seen something about larger fonts on capable displays which is probably part of all this.

While I would prefer larger text, it does sound like the UI elements get enlarged too vs just the text, which also can't show longer messages.

Maybe there's no perfect solution. These are edge case types of devices, since they're EOL, sadly. There's some other similar device maybe being built that's been mentioned on Reddit. So, if it's got similar screen size, or if other devices do, maybe there's some way to balance the UI vs text size better, someday.

For now, I'm actually ok with larger text but haven't updated yet. If it isn't so good, perhaps will try the changes noted above.

Thanks for sharing your findings on this.

As I've stated before: According to Circuit Mess these ARE NOT EOL. I was able to get information from them except for PCB etch files because they were adamant that they said they planned on making more or an updated one. But I'm unsure because it seems that the only people that actually want these are actual grown adults as it is T9.

[eureekasigns]

@rimwulf Suppose end of sale might have been more accurate. It does seem like it may have been one reason kids didn't get more of these. That, and Sam's club exclusively. It's challenging to make and sell such things I imagine.

@dogboyaa1 can't find the Reddit thread on the one I'd seen. They might have deleted it. Board fit into a case for an HT. Similar to other radios with zero button off to the right, which I never preferred. Phone and other keypad standard was good.

I'm not sure anyone outside of those who enjoy experimenting care what keyboard it is though. Everyone's too used to touchscreens. Even the t deck is niche. These are like a sub niche, or something, but still cool IMO

[rimwulf]

@rimwulf Suppose end of sale might have been more accurate. It does seem like it may have been one reason kids didn't get more of these. That, and Sam's club exclusively. It's challenging to make and sell such things I imagine.

@dogboyaa1 can't find the Reddit thread on the one I'd seen. They might have deleted it. Board fit into a case for an HT. Similar to other radios with zero button off to the right, which I never preferred. Phone and other keypad standard was good.

I'm not sure anyone outside of those who enjoy experimenting care what keyboard it is though. Everyone's too used to touchscreens. Even the t deck is niche. These are like a sub niche, or something, but still cool IMO

I had high hopes for this but it may be low priority.

[tomhanax]

But I'm unsure because it seems that the only people that actually want these are actual grown adults as it is T9.

I'm not sure anyone outside of those who enjoy experimenting care what keyboard it is though. Everyone's too used to touchscreens.

I do not agree. I know several kids 8-13 they are very keen to use T9 on Chatter 2. You know, Chatter is all about kids, as CircuitMess is... Kids are more flexible than adults, if something is interesting, they will learn quickly and be happy. Meshtastic is only "more practical" replacement of original firmware to "be compatible with adults" :)

As far as those kids are still kids, they will use them, so I will learn how to support them ;) From customizing firmware and hardware to better cases, you can tweak many things and that is great.

[USBEprom]

@eureekasigns

I agree that with some devices a compromise is required, I do not for the solution that in this case has been chosen.
In my opinion things had to be left as they were in the beginning and whoever had had the need would have made their changes, because I do not believe that for the specific use case, texting, the solution that was found is the best.
I see the aforementioned solution as a style exercise that shows how it can be possible to automatize the adaptation of the firmware for such different devices, but in the real world it is not possible treat products that use display with a resolution of 320 x 200 pixels or more with others that at most reach 160 x 128 pixels as is for CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0, of course remaining confined in the same use case.
In my opinion for texting it makes no sense to impose a visualization that makes it difficult even to understand who is the recipient of the message.
Maybe for GPS tracking, positioning or other use case, but for texting definitely not.
However, it is no a real problem, since still it can be possible to get the desired result by changing the source code.

@dogboyaa1

If you are referring to T-Deck (https://lilygo.cc/products/t-deck?srsltid=AfmBOoowdU_dOhJ36bOXOusKUWcYr3PhytEJq1jigaeq05nl_UkEjB7M) and T-Deck Plus (https://lilygo.cc/products/t-deck-plus-1?srsltid=AfmBOop9qWbD6ZqE9Mq8osUrR3iwK-cj8TwyGYkvRVxDPB8MhhKQfCes), both are mentioned in ScreenFonts.h I wrote labeled as defined(ST7789_CS) and defined(USE_ST7789).
T-Deck and T-Deck Plus use a 2.8 inch ST7789 SPI Interface IPS LCD with resolution 320 x 240 pixels full viewing angle.
Speaking of T-Deck and T-Deck Plus, both devices are equipped with a trackball with which it is possible to toggle and select target channel and recipient, I wonder if it is possible to do such a thing also with CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 by adding a trackball or something like that, because I believe that the inability to switch channels without an external device like a phone, MID and so on, represent a heavy limitation for a standalone device.
If I understood well currently CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 can only switch recipients, not channels.
I do not know if the aforementioned limitation with CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 is due to their hardware (there is no enough room for the code necessary to implement the feature or something else).
I have to take a look at the schematic diagram and in the code of T-Deck and T-Deck Plus.
What I know is that T-Deck and T-Deck Plus use more powerful ESP processors than those used in CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 and that T-Deck and T-Deck Plus have a dedicated processor for keyboard management, while CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 use 15 single buttons and a couple of 74HC165 shift registers wired directly to the ESP32.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

Fair enough though I haven't seen what latest does. There was a compromise on fonts with a previous attempt where the UI remained small and only text entry/receipt was medium. Worked well except for longer messages.
Agree those should stay small. If all small is better for that, that's ok

In any case, on the other topic you mention it is possible already to select recipient or channel.

It's not the most elegant, but does work.

https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/chatter/keypad/

The BACKSPACE button is assigned to the TAB function when SHIFT has been pressed once. To select a destination, use the TAB button (press SHIFT once then BACKSPACE) to highlight the destination field. Then use the RIGHT key to cycle through available destinations. (Press SHIFT again to return the first function of each key)

[USBEprom]

In any case, on the other topic you mention it is possible already to select recipient or channel.

It's not the most elegant, but does work.

https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/chatter/keypad/

The BACKSPACE button is assigned to the TAB function when SHIFT has been pressed once. To select a destination, use the TAB button (press SHIFT once then BACKSPACE) to highlight the destination field. Then use the RIGHT key to cycle through available destinations. (Press SHIFT again to return the first function of each key)

@eureekasigns

Yes, I know it and is correct, but only for choosing recipients, not for that of the channels.
As is currently the Meshtastic firmware right now, its customization for CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 only allow to switch recipients, do not channels.
As I wrote in my previous post, being able to choose the recipient is surely ok, but the inability to do so with channels without an external device (a phone, MID and so on) represent a heavy limitation for a standalone device as CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 are.
Based on how things are right now, with CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 fresh texts and canned messages can be directed at will by choosing the desired recipient, but only the primary channel can be use, all traffic takes place there, in standalone mode it is not possible to select a different one channel.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

I've been able to select channel on device. Don't recall exact steps offhand. Had left a different private primary, in most cases, as I didn't want to accidentally send to longfast.

Possibly posted in this thread about it at one point. May have time to experiment later.

Edit: After a node is selected, backspace then right arrow selects the channel.
Again, it's not the greatest navigation but it can work.

[USBEprom]

@eureekasigns

Thanks for sharing, I did not know it.
Ok, I tried it and it work like a charm exactly as you just wrote.
Good to know it!
I agree with you, maybe not the greatest navigation, but I can live equally also considering that now with the Meshtastic firmware the touch response of the keyboard buttons is much more precise and anti bouncing than the one exhibited by the stock firmware from CircuitMess for their CHATTER device (I do not have CHATTER 2.0 and I have never tried its firmware on my CHATTER, so I can not say if in that new firmware the management of the keyboard has been improved compared to the previous release).
Great, for me this is more than enough.

At this point it will be necessary to update the device page at https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/chatter/keypad/ by adding this novelty that I honestly never read or heard before now.
Very, very well, thank you very much eureekasigns!

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[USBEprom]

https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/chatter/keypad/

Hi guys.
Here are the updated instructions for the CHATTER and CHATTER 2.0 keypad:

CHATTER_KEYPAD.pdf

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

2.7.0 adds quite a lot of GUI changes.
The tab function no longer appears to work for me to select destination, FYI.

The keyboard functions may need to change for the latest version.

There is now a GUI to select destination.
You can type and it starts to narrow the list but it's not very functional.
You can, however, cycle favorites to message directly.
Not sure who worked on the original keyboard code for these. Was it @GPSFan ? Scrolling through thread on phone at the moment.

Other than that, and the clock font being a little too large it seems to mostly work as intended on the chatter. Very nice GUI changes in 2.7.

[USBEprom]

Another possible solution it is to use a circular stack.
In both cases (changing the buttons mapping or use a circular stack) there will be delays due the time needed to reach the desired item, not to mention that not being able to reverse the scrolling, if making a mistake it will be need to scroll the whole list and go again on the desired position.
It is possible to filter the items, but in my opinion the thing is not very helpful.
In any case, I believe that over time the problems will be solved, as has always been so far.
To make things complicated is the lack of instructions about the different features with the different devices, but it has always been so.
In fact, also with the previous firmware the "WIKI" about the CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 keyboard it was already incomplete.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

If I understand you on circular idea, pressing down does loop back to top of list.

Trying another idea. Up/down for the top buttons and letting backspace cycle through main menus. This works but leaves backspace to be the navigation of main menus.

Now that I'm trying that I think it works well enough. Either is better than defaults.

[eureekasigns]

I would say changing line 90 here to say DOWN instead of RIGHT gets things functional.

Backspace going "left" though the main menus is workable.

If there's some way to get shift to go right, or to long press for more, maybe that's something to try. For now I would say the simplest change is one word in this to get things working.

https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/master/src/input/SerialKeyboard.cpp

[USBEprom]

@eureekasigns

Pretty busy here on other projects...

eureekasigns wrote:

If I understand you on circular idea, pressing down does loop back to top of list.

Yes, exactly, it is so: by pressing down does loop back to top of the list.
It is one of the hypothetical possible solutions, though, I think it is complicated to implement it: really I do not know, I am not a firmware engineer.
I guess it is much easier to modify SerialKeyboard.cpp.
In my opinion the change you propose is a good starting point, thanks for sharing!
I remain of the idea that for the best result the direction buttons should all be fully rehabilitated.
Anyway I tried your solution and actually it works.
Pressing the BACKSPACE button it is also possible to cyclically select the retractable icons, to then confirm them using the SELECT button (✔): not bad.
Really bad is the current implementation of the debouncing on the whole keypad, really very bad, while with the previous MESHTASTIC firmware the buttons behaved even better than with the stock firmware from CircuitMess for their CHATTER device (I do not have CHATTER 2.0 and I have never tried its firmware on my CHATTER, so I can not say if in that upgraded firmware the management of the keypad has been improved compared to the previous one).

About the viewing problem of the clock while in digital format, I am not a firmware engineer, but I took a look at the source and it seems to me that responsible for the behavior of the current MESHTASTIC firmware on CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 is ClockRenderrer.cpp (https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/master/src/graphics/draw/ClockRenderer.cpp) in line 237, so I tried to modify the code from the original

237 scale = 1.5;

to this

237 scale = 1.1;

In this way the viewing on the display of the clock in digital format is settled.

About the fonts, in fact as you have also observed, with the new code the firmware is built by imposing the SMALL ones without the need to modify anything.
I did not deepen the matter, but I noticed that Screen.cpp (https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/master/src/graphics/Screen.cpp) was updated compared to the one into the previous source released.

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[eureekasigns]

That is a good find on clock. Thank you

Not sure what can be done about keyboard issue you're referring to. Perhaps longer time between cycling characters.

In any case I added a request for the one button change and clock. No idea what it would take to add shift function for left/right vs up/down.
For now, I think the simpler fix of one line change would be beneficial. It gets the new UI working. It should be very easy to add I hope. If others want to make a different change that is better, that is welcome.
Not sure about clock change for the specific device build. Do not know enough about how they're doing dynamic sizing or if a specific change is even possible for a specific device like this.

[USBEprom]

@eureekasigns

Well done, thanks!
I already said it, I am not a firmware engineer, so I got the value scale = 1.1 empirically decreasing the original scale = 1.5: up to scale = 1.2 the viewing of the clock in digital format exceeded the size of the display, by using scale = 1.1 the viewing on the display of the clock in digital format honors the allowed sizes.
Honestly I also tried scale = 1.0 and I have not noticed difference compared to scale = 1.1, so it could also be fine scale = 1.0, but scale = 1.1 is the first value, decreasing from original scale = 1.5, with which the viewing of the clock in digital format does not exceed the size of the display on CHATTER/CHATTER 2.0 device, which is a ST7735S with 160x128 resolution [128x160 rotated] (https://community.circuitmess.com/t/chatter-screen-pins-for-tft-espi-library/5349/3).

Be seeing you.

U.Sb

[cookieking653]

I installed the firmware on two of my chatter 2.0s last night and it worked perfectly! Then I tried it this afternoon and it keeps saying, "Waiting to be Acknowledged", "Failed to Broadcast", or "Max Retransmission rate Reached" or something similar even though they are practically touching. What should I do to troubleshoot. I have tried sending from the keyboard or my phone / computer on all channels and direct messaging. Thanks in advance!

[Control0405]

dumb question but how do you install the firmware? i have an extra one that i want to use and here locally we are using medium fast. TYIA!

[eureekasigns]

dumb question but how do you install the firmware? i have an extra one that i want to use and here locally we are using medium fast. TYIA!

Well, before you get too excited, with the stock chip it works on Medium-Slow. Not fast.

You need to short the bottom right side CPU pin to ground as it boots up. Then you can push the firmware via command line.

[eureekasigns]

Stock LoRa chips? Be sure both have same and correct settings. Medium slow if you didn't change chips.
What app? iPhone or Android? If Android .30 works but latest alpha has some issues at the moment.

Be sure both have green padlock in app. Factory reset probably last resort

[cookieking653]

Stock chips and iPhone app. I am on Medium Slow and it still isn't working. There is also the green padlock on both apps.

[eureekasigns]

Maybe reset config on both. Let them sync up with each other and try again.

Usually it's either encryption, LoRa settings, or the app. Sometimes LoRa settings can get changed for odd reasons at least on Android in the past., usually from channel settings changing things.

[cookieking653]

That worked! Thanks a lot for your help!

[ohthehugemanatee]

I have a new set of Chatter 2's ordered in October, and opened them up so i could do the pin-shorting trick to flash... and noticed that this is not the WROOM ESP32 I've seen on other peoples' posts. Looks like I have v2.1 ! The text "ver 2.1" is hidden under the display module in my pic. Schematic (yes, the filename says 2.0, but the content of the file says 2.1) .

A short search says my WT32-S1 is just an ESP32 in a different form factor. Can anyone more knowledgeable confirm if there are meshtastic-relevant differences compared to the WROOM?

The Vollgo VGdd79S868N0S1 appears to be another LLCC68-class LoRa module, so as I understand it the logic will be the same (ie Meshtastic firmware doesn't need a change). but the dimensions and pinout are different. The DreamLNK DL-LLCC68-S-868 is 17.1 × 16.1 mm with 16 pins, The Vollgo is 11.5 × 11.5 mm with 14 pins in a very different arrangement.

So for people buying "Chatter 2.0" devices from Fall 2025 onwards, be aware that that the radio replacement is no longer easy and straightforward... until we can identify a more pin-compatible replacement.

[dogboyaa1]

I am very shocked that they still producing them!

[eureekasigns]

Fascinating. Newer model available on their site available to purchase. Also saw some comments that in some regions its default frequency is incorrect. Wonder if that's the same in the US. Also wonder if there would be any way to replace that chip, or if it may be compatible with other modes such as long fast.

Were you able to flash meshtastic onto it @ohthehugemanatee ?

Is it just using a PCB antenna?

[dogboyaa1]

Good catch I don’t see any antenna but the schismatic shows pin 14 and we see that array on top center that is acting as the antenna. Seems like the ol replacement chip (can’t remember the model off the top of my head) has the antenna on the top left

[ohthehugemanatee]

I am very shocked that they still producing them!

They produce all kinds of STEM kits for kids. And this one is super easy to assemble, and pretty fun. Heck, it taught ME about Lora. 😂 I couldn't get it to boot into a mode that esptool would recognize. Shorting GPIO0 to ground (I only have fat alligator clips, so I used the USB C port outer shield as "ground") during a reboot or power on definitely prevented the chatter OS from loading, because the screen didn't activate. But I got nothing on my dmesg, and esptool said it couldn't find anything on any serial ports. Even the data sheet for this chip says shorting boots into SPI mode. I know usb shields are not always "real ground", so I'll see if i can reliably get to the ground pin on the same chip when I try again. I'm open to other ideas.

[eureekasigns]

@ohthehugemanatee that is fascinating. Thank you for the update on the attempt. Can you try the command line flash method? Usually that will attempt to connect and upload, but it's a little strange that there was no COM port detected. Surely there is a way. Perhaps visual studio code with the right extras installed could work. Hopefully it doesn't need any extra changes to the code to get it to function.

[eureekasigns]

This also mentions needing updated Arduino package. Perhaps that'd be helpful?
https://community.circuitmess.com/t/915mhz-frequency-and-channel/4826/13